Vertical Rollerskating

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Message 3738 (22. Oct. 2007 11:13) (Tree)

joe90
grind bars/skateboard wheels
: Looks like I will be getting a set of tracker plates and mid tracks trucks! :-D I'm not yet certain on the grind bar. I dont want wood blocks cause of the weight, it would be too much for me. I want something light, stable, and simple. Would square PVC pipe work? Is it hard to cut? I dont know what they have at Home Depot but something like this
:
: http://farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod;10001;;3165a59d_WC1150.html
:
: Or thought of an inline grind frame cut up. If not guess I will have to wait if the minis work with rollergirls grind bars.
:
: Also, explain what PF ans SPF all mean. Really hard wheels I assume? Do hard skateboard wheels still have grip? How does 95a compare to a 95a roller skate wheel and compare to SPF wheel? It might take some time but hopefully I will have an awesome set up before spring, fast and perfect for grinding!

95a is the duromiter(hardness) of the urethane used in that particular wheel.A 95a roller wheel and a 95a dildo is the exact same hardness but quality and pouring technique are the defining factors for speed,grip,wear resistance and rebound.Tim Dawe, the creator of Ozi,Cocroach,cozmo,point blank,Cortech and electro urethane is the master wheel maker in my humble opinion and you cannot go wrong in buying any of his product.I have a few mates rolling on rainskates wheels too and are more than happy with them,they are US made wheels so should be easy to track down.

cheers joe
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Replies

claudine: grind bars/skateboard wheels (22. Oct. 2007 08:17)
 Looks like I will be getting a set of tracker plates and mid tracks trucks! :-D I'm not yet certain on the grind bar. I dont want wood blocks cause of the weight, it would be too much for me. I want something light, stable, and simple. Would square PVC pipe work? Is it hard to cut? I dont know what they have at Home Depot but something like this

http://farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod;10001;;3165a59d_WC1150.html

Or thought of an inline grind frame cut up. If not guess I will have to wait if the minis work with rollergirls grind bars.

Also, explain what PF ans SPF all mean. Really hard wheels I assume? Do hard skateboard wheels still have grip? How does 95a compare to a 95a roller skate wheel and compare to SPF wheel? It might take some time but hopefully I will have an awesome set up before spring, fast and perfect for grinding!
  Write reply
joe90: grind bars/skateboard wheels (22. Oct. 2007 11:13)
 : Looks like I will be getting a set of tracker plates and mid tracks trucks! :-D I'm not yet certain on the grind bar. I dont want wood blocks cause of the weight, it would be too much for me. I want something light, stable, and simple. Would square PVC pipe work? Is it hard to cut? I dont know what they have at Home Depot but something like this
:
: http://farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod;10001;;3165a59d_WC1150.html
:
: Or thought of an inline grind frame cut up. If not guess I will have to wait if the minis work with rollergirls grind bars.
:
: Also, explain what PF ans SPF all mean. Really hard wheels I assume? Do hard skateboard wheels still have grip? How does 95a compare to a 95a roller skate wheel and compare to SPF wheel? It might take some time but hopefully I will have an awesome set up before spring, fast and perfect for grinding!

95a is the duromiter(hardness) of the urethane used in that particular wheel.A 95a roller wheel and a 95a dildo is the exact same hardness but quality and pouring technique are the defining factors for speed,grip,wear resistance and rebound.Tim Dawe, the creator of Ozi,Cocroach,cozmo,point blank,Cortech and electro urethane is the master wheel maker in my humble opinion and you cannot go wrong in buying any of his product.I have a few mates rolling on rainskates wheels too and are more than happy with them,they are US made wheels so should be easy to track down.

cheers joe
  Write reply
zorg: grind bars/skateboard wheels (22. Oct. 2007 12:10)
 I have both (from Lisa)
-Powell bowl bomber 64mm 95a
-Powell bowl bomber 64mm PF (Park formula)
As they have the same shape,and size, they are easy to compare, for me:
-95a always keep grip, rolling or sliding.
-PF are much harder, faster and also grippier, directive, but when they slide you are on ice (good on the coping): for the PF there is no transition between total grip/total slide, whereas for the 95a you always keep some grip for this transition....
The PF don't flat spot (nore the 95a), but they tends to have "wheel bites" (not the 95a), on ramp bolts for example. They both wear down very slowly (very go(o)d material) and e(a)venly.
For both, you need very smooth surfaces, specialy for the PF
Both don't have core (so you can abuse them down to the bearings) and don't have de-hubing troubles. But modern hubbed wheels (rainskate, Joes' advices, Rockron...) are lighter, with less rotating inertia, keeping a better alignement for the bearings.
I'm very happy with both, but Joes adviced wheels (Cortech, rainskate, Roncknron and Autobahn) are on my wish list!!!!!
Cheers
: 95a is the duromiter(hardness) of the urethane used in that particular wheel.A 95a roller wheel and a 95a dildo is the exact same hardness but quality and pouring technique are the defining factors for speed,grip,wear resistance and rebound.Tim Dawe, the creator of Ozi,Cocroach,cozmo,point blank,Cortech and electro urethane is the master wheel maker in my humble opinion and you cannot go wrong in buying any of his product.I have a few mates rolling on rainskates wheels too and are more than happy with them,they are US made wheels so should be easy to track down.
:
: cheers joe
  Write reply
claudine: grind bars/skateboard wheels (22. Oct. 2007 16:14)
 Joe, U R funny! :-D

Well, this is for skatepark and bowls. Honestly, right now I am liking the softer 85a wheels over the hard 97a. Just cause when I land, I dont want to slide to nowhere. I'm skating on asphalt, doing street stuff too. But they are sooooo slow on the halfpipe, no air after dropping in. So far I find the size means more then the hardness for speed. I want something harder cause transitions can stick if I spin them and I want something much faster.

95a roller skate speed wheels have 0 grip but those say some grip? I was thinking the bowl bombers. Seems like you go from 85a to 95a. I'm not sure if thats too hard now, later I know it will be perfect. Or maybe its time to make the jump?

I like the bombers, I like ths tsunamis 95a too! 100a I know is too hard, maybe later if I just do indoor vert. Or if I chicken out, 88a kryptonics would be better then my soft sticky wheels now.. But I dont want something harder then 95a now, unless its a miracle grip somehow too. I dont know which is lighter either but speed is more important then weight to me. Speed will give me momentum to get my skates up.

: I have both (from Lisa)
: -Powell bowl bomber 64mm 95a
: -Powell bowl bomber 64mm PF (Park formula)
: As they have the same shape,and size, they are easy to compare, for me:
: -95a always keep grip, rolling or sliding.
: -PF are much harder, faster and also grippier, directive, but when they slide you are on ice (good on the coping): for the PF there is no transition between total grip/total slide, whereas for the 95a you always keep some grip for this transition....
: The PF don't flat spot (nore the 95a), but they tends to have "wheel bites" (not the 95a), on ramp bolts for example. They both wear down very slowly (very go(o)d material) and e(a)venly.
: For both, you need very smooth surfaces, specialy for the PF
: Both don't have core (so you can abuse them down to the bearings) and don't have de-hubing troubles. But modern hubbed wheels (rainskate, Joes' advices, Rockron...) are lighter, with less rotating inertia, keeping a better alignement for the bearings.
: I'm very happy with both, but Joes adviced wheels (Cortech, rainskate, Roncknron and Autobahn) are on my wish list!!!!!
: Cheers
: : 95a is the duromiter(hardness) of the urethane used in that particular wheel.A 95a roller wheel and a 95a dildo is the exact same hardness but quality and pouring technique are the defining factors for speed,grip,wear resistance and rebound.Tim Dawe, the creator of Ozi,Cocroach,cozmo,point blank,Cortech and electro urethane is the master wheel maker in my humble opinion and you cannot go wrong in buying any of his product.I have a few mates rolling on rainskates wheels too and are more than happy with them,they are US made wheels so should be easy to track down.
: :
: : cheers joe
  Write reply
zorg: skateboard wheels (22. Oct. 2007 17:15)
 PF are harder than '100A' (100A is max of the A-scale, 104a is an extrapolation that can't be measured with the durometer in A-scale mode....), so they can be rated on the B-scale only. For different brands (or even 'millesime'), you have different grip for the same hardeness, so the shore index (A ou B scale) is only one among many other parameters that keep busy on rainy days....
Some interesting ints from Powell forum:
"the PF is our Powell version of the SPF. we use different terms to differentiate between the two brands, Powell and BONES."
"DTF's are 95a, STF and SPF wheels are harder than can be accurately measured by the A scale, but this is the only scale that skaters have ever gotten “calibrated” on and understand, so we had a choice of calling them 104A as we have in the past, or taking a different direction and stating what they were designed for, street or park. Getting into how we came up with the number 104A is an interesting story, and part of the Bones legacy, but perhaps more technical than most skaters care about. Also, I think if the kid reads the wheel as 104, he’s gonna think it’s too hard. But the urethane that we use—it needs to be that hard to ride the way it does. So we just use STF Street Tech Formula and SPF Skatepark Formula as the hardness. I think what we need to do is educate the kids on the B scale so that they understand it. It’s gonna take some time, but if everyone gets into it, we can have a way more accurate reading on wheels. My 101A wheel could be completely different from somebody else’s 101A wheel just because of the urethanes they use and because it is a guesstimate. There’s too many variables involved there."

Source:
http://www.skateone.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5
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claudine: thanks...... (22. Oct. 2007 17:52)
 So the 95a or DTF might be a good "softer" wheel for me? The compounds seem all different. I noticed on the speed, zodiac wheels 95a, they seemed much harder then the roller bones 97a. Like hard cheap plastic no grip, no rebound, very rigid. I hated them. I heard that the hard skateboard wheels roll nicely over things though and are faster and you can ride harder. So thats why I was thinking 95a would be good for me. They have spitfires, 92a too. 85a would be too soft for me. I've never riden skateboard wheels so this is new to me. I appreciate the info! No real hurry, no job so this is a Christmas idea lol. Just I want to get something that I stick with for a long time, til it wears out. Testing out stuff is getting too expensive.

But this is interesting. The inliners skate on 88-90a. Is it that a wider wheel has more grip too?

: PF are harder than '100A' (100A is max of the A-scale, 104a is an extrapolation that can't be measured with the durometer in A-scale mode....), so they can be rated on the B-scale only. For different brands (or even 'millesime'), you have different grip for the same hardeness, so the shore index (A ou B scale) is only one among many other parameters that keep busy on rainy days....
: Some interesting ints from Powell forum:
: "the PF is our Powell version of the SPF. we use different terms to differentiate between the two brands, Powell and BONES."
: "DTF's are 95a, STF and SPF wheels are harder than can be accurately measured by the A scale, but this is the only scale that skaters have ever gotten “calibrated” on and understand, so we had a choice of calling them 104A as we have in the past, or taking a different direction and stating what they were designed for, street or park. Getting into how we came up with the number 104A is an interesting story, and part of the Bones legacy, but perhaps more technical than most skaters care about. Also, I think if the kid reads the wheel as 104, he’s gonna think it’s too hard. But the urethane that we use—it needs to be that hard to ride the way it does. So we just use STF Street Tech Formula and SPF Skatepark Formula as the hardness. I think what we need to do is educate the kids on the B scale so that they understand it. It’s gonna take some time, but if everyone gets into it, we can have a way more accurate reading on wheels. My 101A wheel could be completely different from somebody else’s 101A wheel just because of the urethanes they use and because it is a guesstimate. There’s too many variables involved there."
:
: Source:
: http://www.skateone.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5
  Write reply
Bernhard: thanks...... (22. Oct. 2007 18:16)
 : But this is interesting. The inliners skate on 88-90a. Is it that a wider wheel has more grip too?

That's one reason. The other is that the wheels are in one line, not in two tracks. Maybe I should call this site 4tracks ...
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claudine: thanks...... (22. Oct. 2007 18:23)
 : : But this is interesting. The inliners skate on 88-90a. Is it that a wider wheel has more grip too?
:
: That's one reason. The other is that the wheels are in one line, not in two tracks. Maybe I should call this site 4tracks ...

Well, keep me updated on the name so I can do the shirts lol!

That makes sense. What doesnt make sense is why skating in a straight jacket is prefered by most lol? Sorry, no trucks takes out the fun for me. I dont know why, my feet dont like em and dont get happy like with roller skates. I put them on and try to turn and get mad lol.
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zorg: Welcome...... (22. Oct. 2007 18:38)
 : : But this is interesting. The inliners skate on 88-90a. Is it that a wider wheel has more grip too?
:
: That's one reason. The other is that the wheels are in one line, not in two tracks.

yep, that's tricky because the sliding point depends also on the pressure (force*area) applied on the wheels.
Maybe as quads have a wider contact area and our trucks can impose a higher force, by tork effect, the harder wheels are needed? (This is an interesting subject for my students!)

Nevermind, PF or new school 95a skateboard wheels are magic: still grippy!!!! I learned ramp with hard artistic quad wheels (another hardeness scale), they were like stones (not the Claudine you know ;-), well like rocks if you prefer!!!

: Maybe I should call this site 4tracks ...
Origin8 is really good!!!! (In side stance it's 2tracks??)
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claudine: Welcome...... (22. Oct. 2007 20:03)
 : : : But this is interesting. The inliners skate on 88-90a. Is it that a wider wheel has more grip too?
: :
: : That's one reason. The other is that the wheels are in one line, not in two tracks.
:
: yep, that's tricky because the sliding point depends also on the pressure (force*area) applied on the wheels.
: Maybe as quads have a wider contact area and our trucks can impose a higher force, by tork effect, the harder wheels are needed? (This is an interesting subject for my students!)
:
: Nevermind, PF or new school 95a skateboard wheels are magic: still grippy!!!! I learned ramp with hard artistic quad wheels (another hardeness scale), they were like stones (not the Claudine you know ;-), well like rocks if you prefer!!!
:
: : Maybe I should call this site 4tracks ...
: Origin8 is really good!!!! (In side stance it's 2tracks??)

I think I like Origin8! I'll get to work on that again later this week if I can stop thinking about skating and do my homework first lol. Yes, artistic wheels have no grip or rebound and bite so thats why I wanted soft. And thats why the extra mile to get a skateboard set up. I'm not so worried about weight now cause more weight might = more speed which would = more air which = > :-D!

F*A, interesting, OK, I'm a nerd lol! I like to understand this stuff. Makes sense though, also larger diameter wheels which roll easier harder too and larger width increases stability I think.
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joe90: grind bars/skateboard wheels (22. Oct. 2007 23:54)
 : I have both (from Lisa)
: -Powell bowl bomber 64mm 95a
: -Powell bowl bomber 64mm PF (Park formula)
: As they have the same shape,and size, they are easy to compare, for me:
: -95a always keep grip, rolling or sliding.
: -PF are much harder, faster and also grippier, directive, but when they slide you are on ice (good on the coping): for the PF there is no transition between total grip/total slide, whereas for the 95a you always keep some grip for this transition....
: The PF don't flat spot (nore the 95a), but they tends to have "wheel bites" (not the 95a), on ramp bolts for example. They both wear down very slowly (very go(o)d material) and e(a)venly.
: For both, you need very smooth surfaces, specialy for the PF
: Both don't have core (so you can abuse them down to the bearings) and don't have de-hubing troubles. But modern hubbed wheels (rainskate, Joes' advices, Rockron...) are lighter, with less rotating inertia, keeping a better alignement for the bearings.
: I'm very happy with both, but Joes adviced wheels (Cortech, rainskate, Roncknron and Autobahn) are on my wish list!!!!!
: Cheers
: : 95a is the duromiter(hardness) of the urethane used in that particular wheel.A 95a roller wheel and a 95a dildo is the exact same hardness but quality and pouring technique are the defining factors for speed,grip,wear resistance and rebound.Tim Dawe, the creator of Ozi,Cocroach,cozmo,point blank,Cortech and electro urethane is the master wheel maker in my humble opinion and you cannot go wrong in buying any of his product.I have a few mates rolling on rainskates wheels too and are more than happy with them,they are US made wheels so should be easy to track down.
: :
: : cheers joe

Hey Zorg are the cortech's hard to get over there? I may be able to help out..

cheers joe
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Robert: thanks...... (23. Oct. 2007 03:33)
 Claudine,

I started vertical rollerskating at around 11 years old. I did it on and off for many years just because I did not have vert to skate. I switched to inline in 1992 and the only reason was because I sort of sold out. I had no access to good skates and wanted to get sponsored. I did get sponsored and I was the only vert skater I know of during that time that skated for Bauer. I personally see no advantage to inline skates, but I think the groms do it because it is popular. I switched back to quads because this is my last come back and I want to go out oldschool and leave off where I started. I think your tenacity and appreciation for quads is awesome. As I have said, I really don't think equipment will change the way I skate, but I am following your lead and am interested in any suggestions that you or anyone has.

: : : But this is interesting. The inliners skate on 88-90a. Is it that a wider wheel has more grip too?
: :
: : That's one reason. The other is that the wheels are in one line, not in two tracks. Maybe I should call this site 4tracks ...
:
: Well, keep me updated on the name so I can do the shirts lol!
:
: That makes sense. What doesnt make sense is why skating in a straight jacket is prefered by most lol? Sorry, no trucks takes out the fun for me. I dont know why, my feet dont like em and dont get happy like with roller skates. I put them on and try to turn and get mad lol.
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Robert: Welcome...... (23. Oct. 2007 03:35)
 I used to ride on very stock skates and never knew anything about wheels. I recently got wider trucks and was skating on 99a wheels from Spitfire. I loved the speed, but did not like the flat spots. My SPF's are ready to go and I will keep you posted once I skate again.

: : : But this is interesting. The inliners skate on 88-90a. Is it that a wider wheel has more grip too?
: :
: : That's one reason. The other is that the wheels are in one line, not in two tracks.
:
: yep, that's tricky because the sliding point depends also on the pressure (force*area) applied on the wheels.
: Maybe as quads have a wider contact area and our trucks can impose a higher force, by tork effect, the harder wheels are needed? (This is an interesting subject for my students!)
:
: Nevermind, PF or new school 95a skateboard wheels are magic: still grippy!!!! I learned ramp with hard artistic quad wheels (another hardeness scale), they were like stones (not the Claudine you know ;-), well like rocks if you prefer!!!
:
: : Maybe I should call this site 4tracks ...
: Origin8 is really good!!!! (In side stance it's 2tracks??)
  Write reply
Bernhard: thanks...... (23. Oct. 2007 08:43)
 : Well, keep me updated on the name so I can do the shirts lol!

If there is a decision with respect to a site name, I think the forum will know it first. But keep in mind that this site didn't have a proper name since it started in 1999, so don't hold you breath. Origin8 seems to be quite popular and I like this name, too. I am just not sure if it will work as a site name. For one, I have no idea how to transform it into a logo. For Sk8Mag.de, the graphical concept was easy.
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zorg: wheels? (23. Oct. 2007 17:01)
 The Rainskates are unknown here. Even the Powell 64mm are hard to find, expensive, about 14 euro each (shipped them from Canada by Lisa, faster and sheaper, UPS included).
Same for the trucks, this is why I use standard skateboard truks (Gambin seems to have the remaining trackers here ;-))
I know Autobahn 61mm are awailable at hawaiisurf.com. Abec11 from sickboard.nl
But I couldn't find a dealer in Europe for the Cortech..... So if you may be able to help, or have a B-plan for buying some down here, it would be very cool!!!!??

:
: Hey Zorg are the cortech's hard to get over there? I may be able to help out..
:
: cheers joe
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joe90: wheels? (24. Oct. 2007 10:52)
 Hey Zorg I'll find out some prices on both cortech and rainskates if you like, I skate with both Oz distributors quite regularly. Get on the websites and tell me what you want and I'll find out some prices in Ozy dollars including shipping..I can probably do better on the cortech as I've been mates with him for years.
Am happy to help out all the good folks on this forum.
: :
: : cheers joe
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zorg: wheels? (12. Nov. 2007 15:05)
 Hi Joe, I'm back to the net with some time....
I had a look on the web, do you know how much a set of 8 cortech 61mm (64mm?) or/and 8 rainskate hornets 65mm (98a) would cost, shipping included?
Thx very much in advance!!!!

: Hey Zorg I'll find out some prices on both cortech and rainskates if you like, I skate with both Oz distributors quite regularly. Get on the websites and tell me what you want and I'll find out some prices in Ozy dollars including shipping..I can probably do better on the cortech as I've been mates with him for years.
: Am happy to help out all the good folks on this forum.
: : :
: : : cheers joe
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