Vertical Rollerskating

Vert-Skating-Forum

Message 10317 (6. Aug. 2009 10:20) (Tree)

Bernhard
bernhard@adinfinitum.de
The tragedy of "easy quoting" support
: Bernhard, I am so thankful for your forum and I truly appreciate what you have created. It is absolutely awesome.

Well, thanka a lot for the compliments! Makes me really happy.

The issue you bring up seems to be the same thing that has been bothering me for a while and probably I am the one who has to take a large part of the blame. First off, you do not have to apologize for your woes since they concern a very real usability problem. But let me try to weasle out of it at least a tiny bit by trying to make clear that all has been in the best intention.

The root of the problem is the "easy quoting" support in the forum. When you reply to a posting, a quote of the message you are replying to is automatically included in the input field labeled 'Content'. The idea is that you delete everything not necessary to understand your reply and the writing your reply below the quoted lines it relates to (like I have down with the line from your message on top of the reply I am writing now). The problem is that I assumed everyone to be familiar with this practise from the old days and therefore never explained it anywhere! The way out probably is to make quoting a little bit harder by requiring the user to press a button if he wants to include a quote of the original message and by giving a hint to delete everything not neccessary to understand the context. After all, the original message is only a click away or can be viewed in context of the whole discussion thread by selecting the 'All' view.

To come to the end of this long posting: Your words have encouraged me to change the quoting support some time. Until now, I feared that the users of the forum wpuld kill me, but now I now that you at least would welcome the change.
  Write reply

Replies

Robert: Forum Question For Bernhard (6. Aug. 2009 04:39)
 Bernhard, I am so thankful for your forum and I truly appreciate what you have created. It is absolutely awesome. I did not have another way to ask this so I am posting it now. Is it possible to keep the original post and the responses separate? When someone posts several pictures and then people respond,I have trouble keeping up with who is responding because you have to scroll through the original post. I am definitely not complaining and apologize if it sounds like I am, but it would be so nice to condense the threads. If it is not possible, then I am totally cool with it, but just have a hard time keeping up with all of the posts. Thanks bro.

Rob
  Write reply
Bernhard: The tragedy of "easy quoting" support (6. Aug. 2009 10:20)
 : Bernhard, I am so thankful for your forum and I truly appreciate what you have created. It is absolutely awesome.

Well, thanka a lot for the compliments! Makes me really happy.

The issue you bring up seems to be the same thing that has been bothering me for a while and probably I am the one who has to take a large part of the blame. First off, you do not have to apologize for your woes since they concern a very real usability problem. But let me try to weasle out of it at least a tiny bit by trying to make clear that all has been in the best intention.

The root of the problem is the "easy quoting" support in the forum. When you reply to a posting, a quote of the message you are replying to is automatically included in the input field labeled 'Content'. The idea is that you delete everything not necessary to understand your reply and the writing your reply below the quoted lines it relates to (like I have down with the line from your message on top of the reply I am writing now). The problem is that I assumed everyone to be familiar with this practise from the old days and therefore never explained it anywhere! The way out probably is to make quoting a little bit harder by requiring the user to press a button if he wants to include a quote of the original message and by giving a hint to delete everything not neccessary to understand the context. After all, the original message is only a click away or can be viewed in context of the whole discussion thread by selecting the 'All' view.

To come to the end of this long posting: Your words have encouraged me to change the quoting support some time. Until now, I feared that the users of the forum wpuld kill me, but now I now that you at least would welcome the change.
  Write reply
Beer Hunter: The tragedy of (6. Aug. 2009 16:14)
 This great forum is an excellent tool for us all. It is vital for all of the members here to keep in touch and coordinate skate sessions, help with skate build ideas, share pics and videos as well as matters of personal life.

I must admit that I did find this forum about 3 years ago, but decided not to start posting at that time because the format here is confusing, and following a single discussion can be frustrating.

Even with the changes you will make with the easy quote system, this forum will not compare to the ease of use found over at the SkateLogForum. That place has a standard format that many other internet forums use, making it easier for new members to feel more "at home" right from the start. Plus, that forum already has thousands of registered users AND a sub-forum for people like us... The Quad Vert Skaters of the world. I think we would get better exposure over there and have better chances at bringing new blood into the parks in the form of quad rollers.

If I want to reply to a discussion that was started several weeks ago, it is likely that nobody will see my reply since only the newest threads are listed at the top. Over at SkateLog, you can post a reply to a thread from years back and it will bring the discussion back to the top of the list for all to see immediately. This is one of many advantages to such a site.

This is only an opinion, take is as that... useful criticism.
  Write reply
claudine: The tragedy of (6. Aug. 2009 19:11)
 Honestly I like this format fine, its simple. I like this forum many times more then skatelog. This is for vertical rollerskaters only, skatelog is for inliners for speed and aggressive and indoor quad skaters. Rollerskating on "skateboards" is a joke on skatelog, as are inexpensive homemade skates. Its a nice forum for fitness, indoor quad skating and how to jump on rail questions if thats what you're after. For bowls and ramps, this is the place! I think it is incredibly nice that one rollerskater, Bernhard, has been so kind to give us space and his time. He is the best!! I still feel like I"m the only rollerskater out there since I havent seen one in person yet, but not on this forum.

: This great forum is an excellent tool for us all. It is vital for all of the members here to keep in touch and coordinate skate sessions, help with skate build ideas, share pics and videos as well as matters of personal life.
:
: I must admit that I did find this forum about 3 years ago, but decided not to start posting at that time because the format here is confusing, and following a single discussion can be frustrating.
:
: Even with the changes you will make with the easy quote system, this forum will not compare to the ease of use found over at the SkateLogForum. That place has a standard format that many other internet forums use, making it easier for new members to feel more "at home" right from the start. Plus, that forum already has thousands of registered users AND a sub-forum for people like us... The Quad Vert Skaters of the world. I think we would get better exposure over there and have better chances at bringing new blood into the parks in the form of quad rollers.
:
: If I want to reply to a discussion that was started several weeks ago, it is likely that nobody will see my reply since only the newest threads are listed at the top. Over at SkateLog, you can post a reply to a thread from years back and it will bring the discussion back to the top of the list for all to see immediately. This is one of many advantages to such a site.
:
: This is only an opinion, take is as that... useful criticism.
  Write reply
Bernhard: The tragedy of (6. Aug. 2009 21:23)
 Hi Beer Hunter,

thanks for the kind words on the forum and for the thoughtful criticism. It is those thought exchanges that make the forum better. Quite a few of the participants have stimulated lots of improvements.

As for the ease of following a discussion: To me, the hierarchical view helps me a lot to see who responded to which message (although sometimes messages are posted as replies not to the message they are responding to but somewhere else). Others like PHPBB adopt a linear view and users try to make clear whom they are responding to by adding a @joe if they are responding to a message from joe. Well, the latter style is the one you see at most forums, since most forums use PHPBB or something similar. The disadvantage: less structure, the advantage: messages are ordered chronologically. To make it less frustrating for people used to the linear style, you can view a discussion thread in linear style by clicking the 'All' link.

As for registered users: At the moment, this forum does not require registration at all and therefore provides a lower entrance barrier. But I have to admit that you only can push what you can do that far without registration. E.g. user profiles are out of the question without registration. So maybe some day we will also have registration, hopefully only as an option.

The issue that responses to old messages can very easily be overlooked is a real one. Often, I tell people posting replies to old threads that this is the case and that they might want to start a new thread. But you are right: It would be nice to see the newest postings. There are some forums using a similar format like this one doing this.

As for sub-forums: Of course we can also do sub-forums. At another site where this forum software is in use, there are several sub-forum. I have to admit that in the beginning of this forum, I didn't believe that even this one forum would be viable. But now it is a place well loved by some. And sometimes, i even listen to improvement suggestions ... ;)
  Write reply
Bernhard: The tragedy of (6. Aug. 2009 21:28)
 Hi Claudine,

thanks for the warm words. They are well received!

However, I would argue that a BBS style forum is simpler to implement than a forum with a threaded view. And I think we could argue for hours on end which style is best. Probably Beer Hunter is right that stuff you are used to is easiest to jump on.
  Write reply
Robert: The tragedy of (6. Aug. 2009 22:17)
 Bernhard, you are awesome and the reason I come on here is because the people that come to this forum are all true vert rollerskaters. Claudine, the reason I made the suggestion is to make threads easier to read that have photos and video. Jay posts awesome pics and videos, but it is so time consuming to try to read responses and have to see two pages of the original thread. It would be cool to view an original post with great pics and vids and then just see the responses. It would be so much user friendly. I am not about to complain about this site because it is my favorite and so are the people. I just get confused sometimes as to who is responding and I enjoy reading everyone's comments. You people are awesome and I was so stoked to skate with some of you the other day.

: Hi Claudine,
:
: thanks for the warm words. They are well received!
:
: However, I would argue that a BBS style forum is simpler to implement than a forum with a threaded view. And I think we could argue for hours on end which style is best. Probably Beer Hunter is right that stuff you are used to is easiest to jump on.
  Write reply
Go to the Vert-Skating-forum