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Message 8481 (21. Mar. 2009 05:53) (Tree)

Jay
Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning
: : I ran into similar BS here in the states organizing for
: : RollerCon skatepark tour during my 1st year. They want
: : skaters to adhere to a ridiculously higher standard for
: : some reason. F that!!!
: : PEACE................Jay
:
: So Jay, tell Bernhard what your solution was, since you ran into similar problems! It might help him with his dilemma. (I feel like your wife Dawn, reminding you to dry the dishes after you wash them. SHEESH!)
:
: Cheers!
: Biff

LOL!!!! Biff, sometimes I think you just like to encourage my literary ramblings, but you know it doesn't take much encouragement, so here it goes....
My issues were similar, but not the same.
On the 3rd night of the 1st year's (2007) RollerCon SK8 Park Tour I was hassled by the Marshalls for not having previously attained permission to use the park. But understand said park was a PUBLIC SK8 PARK that we were using for skating. We weren't excluding anyone or monopolising the place or anything.
Eventually, after seeing the direction of their interrogation, I realized they (the city aka THE MAN) were worried we (the skater-organizers) were SOMEHOW making money from the venture. I tried for 30 minutes to convince these cops that there was nothing to sell & eventually they grudgingly came to accept that.
My remedy, such as it were, was to not post notices (flyers) at the skateparks that would be stops for the RC tour. I'll be damned if I'll pay fees (or even give notice of my intent) to use public parks for their intended purpose during their posted hours. And I haven't had an issue or encounter with The Man during all 5 stops of 08's RC tour.
That's probably no help to you, Bernard, I know. Because you're having more of an 'Event'. RC SK8 Park Tour is much more informal & unofficial. Hell we aren't even officially a RC event. Though we have link on RC website for 1st time this year! :)
Anyway, I stand firm on F*#K The Man!!! All they wanna do is SK8! They shouldn't have to pay extra $$ for that.

PEACE....
Jay
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Replies

Bernhard: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 11:54)
 Since there where a few people interested in our local contest, I want to report the state of things as they currently are. Still nothing definite, sorry.

To be able to conduct the contest, we need the permission of the club who owns the ramp (no problem) and also of the city of Freiburg (big problem).

I talked yesterday to some officical from the city. The problem is that they want a fee for their permission. My opinion is, that we organize something which is of use for the public (especially for the youth). Furthermore we put in a lot of our time and also risk loosing the money we put in for toilet, power, flyers, etc. in the event the contest can't take place because of bad weather. Therefore I don't think that it is OK that the city punishes us with a fee. It doesn't matter that the fee isn't very high (last year they demanded 50 Euro, but that seems to be arbitrary) but it's a matter of principle. It can't be that they treat us like someone who organizes a commercial event and makes money off it. We do not make money with our contest, we loose money.

The affair is not decided definitely yet. The official I talked to also wants the contest to take place and also is of our opinion regarding the fee. She tries to fight off the fee but it seems that she has a difficult stand against the city bureaucrats.
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buba: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 13:45)
 : Since there where a few people interested in our local contest, I want to report the state of things as they currently are. Still nothing definite, sorry.
:
: To be able to conduct the contest, we need the permission of the club who owns the ramp (no problem) and also of the city of Freiburg (big problem).
:
: I talked yesterday to some officical from the city. The problem is that they want a fee for their permission. My opinion is, that we organize something which is of use for the public (especially for the youth). Furthermore we put in a lot of our time and also risk loosing the money we put in for toilet, power, flyers, etc. in the event the contest can't take place because of bad weather. Therefore I don't think that it is OK that the city punishes us with a fee. It doesn't matter that the fee isn't very high (last year they demanded 50 Euro, but that seems to be arbitrary) but it's a matter of principle. It can't be that they treat us like someone who organizes a commercial event and makes money off it. We do not make money with our contest, we loose money.
:
: The affair is not decided definitely yet. The official I talked to also wants the contest to take place and also is of our opinion regarding the fee. She tries to fight off the fee but it seems that she has a difficult stand against the city bureaucrats.

One question: the 50 euros is for all the riders or one by one? I hope flying for the hot la wa.
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Bernhard: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 14:39)
 : One question: the 50 euros is for all the riders or one by one? I hope flying for the hot la wa.

It's for the event and has nothing to do with the riders. The starting fee we demanded was 10 Euro and it served to cover cost for a mobile toilet, power, flyers and the like.

I could pay 50 Euros to the city but I feel it is deeply unjust.
  Write reply
biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 17:57)
 Do a contest like the ones that IMYTA used to do. No need for permits, fees, etc..

They moved from spot to spot and just skated. If cops came, they moved to a new spot.

: Since there where a few people interested in our local contest, I want to report the state of things as they currently are. Still nothing definite, sorry.
:
: To be able to conduct the contest, we need the permission of the club who owns the ramp (no problem) and also of the city of Freiburg (big problem).
:
: I talked yesterday to some officical from the city. The problem is that they want a fee for their permission. My opinion is, that we organize something which is of use for the public (especially for the youth). Furthermore we put in a lot of our time and also risk loosing the money we put in for toilet, power, flyers, etc. in the event the contest can't take place because of bad weather. Therefore I don't think that it is OK that the city punishes us with a fee. It doesn't matter that the fee isn't very high (last year they demanded 50 Euro, but that seems to be arbitrary) but it's a matter of principle. It can't be that they treat us like someone who organizes a commercial event and makes money off it. We do not make money with our contest, we loose money.
:
: The affair is not decided definitely yet. The official I talked to also wants the contest to take place and also is of our opinion regarding the fee. She tries to fight off the fee but it seems that she has a difficult stand against the city bureaucrats.
  Write reply
biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 18:03)
 : I could pay 50 Euros to the city but I feel it is deeply unjust.

That is like $65.00 U.S. dollars, right? I would pay it if it pays for the location, toilets, permits, trash receptacles and pick up, and secures the location.
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Bernhard: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 18:39)
 : : I could pay 50 Euros to the city but I feel it is deeply unjust.
:
: That is like $65.00 U.S. dollars, right? I would pay it if it pays for the location, toilets, permits, trash receptacles and pick up, and secures the location.

Ha ha, no. The 50 Euro is for a 10 page contract restricting almost everything you can do at the half pipe. Mobile toilet from a private company costs 150 Euro, power from a neighbor 30 Euro, 100 Euro insurance, etc. And it's not possible to pay the 50 Euro because I see it as punishment. I put in effort and time, I bear the financial risk and I have no means to compensate for the city fee. I can balance the other costs (weather and sufficient participants permitting) but I see no way to balance the city fee.
  Write reply
Bernhard: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 18:41)
 : Do a contest like the ones that IMYTA used to do. No need for permits, fees, etc..

That's one direction we could go. Though there is only the one half pipe, therefor none to move on to.

Another option would be to go into political asylum. I actually find this idea quite charming.
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biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 21:21)
 : Ha ha, no. The 50 Euro is for a 10 page contract restricting almost everything you can do at the half pipe.

Restricting it how?

So, it is like you are paying them 50 euros so that they can control you even more! In that case, I'd recommend anarchy. Stick it to the Man!!!
  Write reply
biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 21:22)
 : : Do a contest like the ones that IMYTA used to do. No need for permits, fees, etc..
:
: That's one direction we could go. Though there is only the one half pipe, therefor none to move on to.
:
: Another option would be to go into political asylum. I actually find this idea quite charming.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Bernhard: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (18. Mar. 2009 22:30)
 : : Ha ha, no. The 50 Euro is for a 10 page contract restricting almost everything you can do at the half pipe.
:
: Restricting it how?

E.g. limiting the noise level (there is no-one livin nearby) or forbidding us to do a BBQ near the ramp (you have to imagine it in a park with a lake where everyone is doing BBQ). And basically making us liable for whatever you can imagine. Really sad.

: So, it is like you are paying them 50 euros so that they can control you even more! In that case, I'd recommend anarchy. Stick it to the Man!!!

Germany is getting ever worse. People like me are enabling the system by paying lots of taxes and then they get punished when they organize something out of idealism. You get punished for idealism in Germany!
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claudine: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (19. Mar. 2009 02:30)
 : : : Ha ha, no. The 50 Euro is for a 10 page contract restricting almost everything you can do at the half pipe.
: :
: : Restricting it how?
:
: E.g. limiting the noise level (there is no-one livin nearby) or forbidding us to do a BBQ near the ramp (you have to imagine it in a park with a lake where everyone is doing BBQ). And basically making us liable for whatever you can imagine. Really sad.
:
: : So, it is like you are paying them 50 euros so that they can control you even more! In that case, I'd recommend anarchy. Stick it to the Man!!!
:
: Germany is getting ever worse. People like me are enabling the system by paying lots of taxes and then they get punished when they organize something out of idealism. You get punished for idealism in Germany!

So are we all going to move to Oz? ;-D Definitely not the US!!!!
  Write reply
Jay: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (20. Mar. 2009 01:10)
 : : : I could pay 50 Euros to the city but I feel it is deeply unjust.
: :
: : That is like $65.00 U.S. dollars, right? I would pay it if it pays for the location, toilets, permits, trash receptacles and pick up, and secures the location.
:
: Ha ha, no. The 50 Euro is for a 10 page contract restricting almost everything you can do at the half pipe. Mobile toilet from a private company costs 150 Euro, power from a neighbor 30 Euro, 100 Euro insurance, etc. And it's not possible to pay the 50 Euro because I see it as punishment. I put in effort and time, I bear the financial risk and I have no means to compensate for the city fee. I can balance the other costs (weather and sufficient participants permitting) but I see no way to balance the city fee.

I'm an Anarchist at Heart anyway, but I agree with you, Bernard. Screw paying them to regulate you. I ran into similar BS here in the states organizing for RollerCon skatepark tour during my 1st year. They want skaters to adhere to a ridiculously higher standard for some reason. F that!!!
BTW, if you ever do decide to defect, you're always welcome to the guest room at Chez Cloetens here in Sin City....
Hope it works out for Hot LaWa.....Stick to your Guns, Bernard.
PEACE................Jay
  Write reply
biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (20. Mar. 2009 14:53)
 : I ran into similar BS here in the states organizing for
: RollerCon skatepark tour during my 1st year. They want
: skaters to adhere to a ridiculously higher standard for
: some reason. F that!!!
: PEACE................Jay

So Jay, tell Bernhard what your solution was, since you ran into similar problems! It might help him with his dilemma. (I feel like your wife Dawn, reminding you to dry the dishes after you wash them. SHEESH!)

Cheers!
Biff
  Write reply
Jay: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (21. Mar. 2009 05:53)
 : : I ran into similar BS here in the states organizing for
: : RollerCon skatepark tour during my 1st year. They want
: : skaters to adhere to a ridiculously higher standard for
: : some reason. F that!!!
: : PEACE................Jay
:
: So Jay, tell Bernhard what your solution was, since you ran into similar problems! It might help him with his dilemma. (I feel like your wife Dawn, reminding you to dry the dishes after you wash them. SHEESH!)
:
: Cheers!
: Biff

LOL!!!! Biff, sometimes I think you just like to encourage my literary ramblings, but you know it doesn't take much encouragement, so here it goes....
My issues were similar, but not the same.
On the 3rd night of the 1st year's (2007) RollerCon SK8 Park Tour I was hassled by the Marshalls for not having previously attained permission to use the park. But understand said park was a PUBLIC SK8 PARK that we were using for skating. We weren't excluding anyone or monopolising the place or anything.
Eventually, after seeing the direction of their interrogation, I realized they (the city aka THE MAN) were worried we (the skater-organizers) were SOMEHOW making money from the venture. I tried for 30 minutes to convince these cops that there was nothing to sell & eventually they grudgingly came to accept that.
My remedy, such as it were, was to not post notices (flyers) at the skateparks that would be stops for the RC tour. I'll be damned if I'll pay fees (or even give notice of my intent) to use public parks for their intended purpose during their posted hours. And I haven't had an issue or encounter with The Man during all 5 stops of 08's RC tour.
That's probably no help to you, Bernard, I know. Because you're having more of an 'Event'. RC SK8 Park Tour is much more informal & unofficial. Hell we aren't even officially a RC event. Though we have link on RC website for 1st time this year! :)
Anyway, I stand firm on F*#K The Man!!! All they wanna do is SK8! They shouldn't have to pay extra $$ for that.

PEACE....
Jay
  Write reply
biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (21. Mar. 2009 06:58)
 : LOL!!!! Biff, sometimes I think you just like to encourage my literary ramblings, but you know it doesn't take much encouragement, so here it goes....
: My issues were similar, but not the same.
: On the 3rd night of the 1st year's (2007) RollerCon SK8 Park Tour I was hassled by the Marshalls for not having previously attained permission to use the park. But understand said park was a PUBLIC SK8 PARK that we were using for skating. We weren't excluding anyone or monopolising the place or anything.
: Eventually, after seeing the direction of their interrogation, I realized they (the city aka THE MAN) were worried we (the skater-organizers) were SOMEHOW making money from the venture. I tried for 30 minutes to convince these cops that there was nothing to sell & eventually they grudgingly came to accept that.
: My remedy, such as it were, was to not post notices (flyers) at the skateparks that would be stops for the RC tour. I'll be damned if I'll pay fees (or even give notice of my intent) to use public parks for their intended purpose during their posted hours. And I haven't had an issue or encounter with The Man during all 5 stops of 08's RC tour.
: That's probably no help to you, Bernard, I know. Because you're having more of an 'Event'. RC SK8 Park Tour is much more informal & unofficial. Hell we aren't even officially a RC event. Though we have link on RC website for 1st time this year! :)
: Anyway, I stand firm on F*#K The Man!!! All they wanna do is SK8! They shouldn't have to pay extra $$ for that.
:
: PEACE....
: Jay

Amen, Hallelujah, and pass the butter! Well said.

Thanks for humoring me. lol
Biff
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Bernhard: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (21. Mar. 2009 09:36)
 Jay, thanks for sharing your experience, which actually is very helpful. I'm convinced that the city thinks I am making money off Hot LaWa and that they just can't imagine anyone going through the trouble organizing such an event without making money. Maybe I will have the chance to talk to someone important and convince him that we do not make money by describing the event to him. The annoying aspect of this is, that it much more expensive than paying the fee when I will do this personally and stay off work for a day. But I'd rather loose a day of payment than paying an unjustified fee. It's not my fault that Freiburg lost money by investing in Leeman certificates!

The alternatives are to just strip off everything looking like an event (the mobile toilette, the music) and just tell everybody the date when the Hot LaWa won't take place this year. Another possibility would be to label it as demonstration. We are still formally living in a democracy and have a right to demonstrate which is guaranteed by the German "Grundgesetz" (you know, we still don't have a constitution).

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biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (22. Mar. 2009 08:25)
 : We are still formally living in a democracy and have
: a right to demonstrate which is guaranteed by the
: German "Grundgesetz" (you know, we still don't have
: a constitution).


Zeigen, Bruder!
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Jay: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (23. Mar. 2009 03:01)
 : Jay, thanks for sharing your experience, which actually is very helpful. I'm convinced that the city thinks I am making money off Hot LaWa and that they just can't imagine anyone going through the trouble organizing such an event without making money. Maybe I will have the chance to talk to someone important and convince him that we do not make money by describing the event to him. The annoying aspect of this is, that it much more expensive than paying the fee when I will do this personally and stay off work for a day. But I'd rather loose a day of payment than paying an unjustified fee. It's not my fault that Freiburg lost money by investing in Leeman certificates!
:
: The alternatives are to just strip off everything looking like an event (the mobile toilette, the music) and just tell everybody the date when the Hot LaWa won't take place this year. Another possibility would be to label it as demonstration. We are still formally living in a democracy and have a right to demonstrate which is guaranteed by the German "Grundgesetz" (you know, we still don't have a constitution).
:
No Constitution!!?!?!? No matter, most of the time they ignore or rewrite ours when it suits the Powers that Be.
I know what you mean about them being incredulous of anyone putting so much into an event just because they're passionate about it. Las Vegas officials were convinced I had a cash-generating mechanism somewhere...they just couldn't figure out (prove) what it was.
Once I stopped giving public notice about RC events, I stopped getting any hassles. So far.
I hope it works out for your HotLaWa, Brother. Viel Gluck!
PEACE................Jay

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ireNe: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (25. Mar. 2009 13:02)
 : : Jay, thanks for sharing your experience, which actually is very helpful. I'm convinced that the city thinks I am making money off Hot LaWa and that they just can't imagine anyone going through the trouble organizing such an event without making money. Maybe I will have the chance to talk to someone important and convince him that we do not make money by describing the event to him. The annoying aspect of this is, that it much more expensive than paying the fee when I will do this personally and stay off work for a day. But I'd rather loose a day of payment than paying an unjustified fee. It's not my fault that Freiburg lost money by investing in Leeman certificates!
: :
: : The alternatives are to just strip off everything looking like an event (the mobile toilette, the music) and just tell everybody the date when the Hot LaWa won't take place this year. Another possibility would be to label it as demonstration. We are still formally living in a democracy and have a right to demonstrate which is guaranteed by the German "Grundgesetz" (you know, we still don't have a constitution).
: :
: No Constitution!!?!?!? No matter, most of the time they ignore or rewrite ours when it suits the Powers that Be.
: I know what you mean about them being incredulous of anyone putting so much into an event just because they're passionate about it. Las Vegas officials were convinced I had a cash-generating mechanism somewhere...they just couldn't figure out (prove) what it was.
: Once I stopped giving public notice about RC events, I stopped getting any hassles. So far.
: I hope it works out for your HotLaWa, Brother. Viel Gluck!
: PEACE................Jay
:

"Flying under the Radar"
just do it and don't tell them...damn money hungry grubbers
good luck, B
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biffsk8er: Hot LaWa 09 - state of planning (25. Mar. 2009 19:45)
 : "Flying under the Radar"
: just do it and don't tell them...damn money hungry grubbers
: good luck, B

I think that would be the best course of action.
(I see your doing some catching up, Irene!)
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